Dear Feeder experts

[Billy-No-Fish]

So that's probably Mickey Mouse and Carpmagic then!!

Ok, being serious. Over the past 3 years i have used the feeder less and less since i got a pole. I could do with something of a refresher on the subject. Not that i was much good before!

1. Long distance feedering. Is it best to use a heavy feeder with a heavy line, or lighter more specialist feeders (Kev Leach type and rocket) coupled to a medium strength line (4-5lb)?

2. Method feeder. What type and size? I know it's a broad question but would you start small and move up sizes?

3. Fishing the bomb, what types of bomb and how do you rig them?

4. Types of line you favour for this type of fishing and why.

5. Paternoster or straight through and why?

Of course everyone else can comment as well, it's not just for Mickey and Steve.....

[Kevin Leach]

Colin, my feeders were designed so you could still go a big chuck without having too heavy a feeder on. So when you retrieved it usually with a fish on you did not drag the fish and your feeder into any low lying snags or weedbeds.
I prefer to use braid where possible, but if its not allowed i use Shimano technium carp in 8lb. It has very little stretch compaired to most other monos and has a three core construction and is tough as old boots and will stand getting dragged over gravel bars and rocks. I remember showing it to Geoff Vallence at a festival on Ferry Meadows and he actually cut his finger trying to break it. Its very smooth and has very little drag as it goes through the rings meaning you acheive better distances with your casting. The only downside is its on huge spools i think you get something like 1040 yards on a spool so its about £32 a spool (If you shop around on ebay you can sometimes get it much cheaper) I also use this line for my shockleader when fishing braid. Hope this helps to answer 1 of your questions (to answer them all could take about a week)

[Billy-No-Fish]

Cheers Kev. I use Technium on my heavy feeder rod for when i'm in Holland. Also as the shockleader on my braid!! Am i right in assuming it isn't just about the weight of the feeder when casting but technique and of course the length of rod. For example in windy conditions a heavy line creates more resistance, so better to go lighter.

[Kevin Leach]

This is taken from the Shimano website.Shimano Technium with its three-core construction, this specially designed reel line bridges the gap between braid and nylon monofilament. A stretch factor of approximately 12%, almost half that of normal mono, means greater casting accuracy and more direct contact when
playing fish. Hard wearing and highly abrasion resistant, its
relatively low diameter aids longer casts meaning you can step
up from 6lb to 8lb with no range loss but all the benefits of the
extra breaking strain.

[Kevin Leach]

Yes your spot on, the thicker the line the more drag is created when casting as it goes through the rings and the wind finds it easier to pick up causing big bows on a side wind which also takes a lot of distance off your cast. I now have a metalworking lathe and intend to try to make some moulds so i can do some bigger weights on my feeders. I dont like using them too heavy but there are times when the wind gets up that you need to use 50,60,70 gram feeders. If you want to have a day fishing with me i would be happy to take you somewhere and show you some of the tips and tricks i have learnt. One of the biggest is the reel. You can have the best feeder rod on the market but suited to the wrong reel you will fall short everytime even with the same feeders.

[Kevin Leach]

Oh by the way, as an expert i hope you dont mean Ex as in past it and Spurt as in a drip under pressure do you?

[Billy-No-Fish]

I use Shimano 4000's for ordinary feeder work and the Shimano baitrunner aero for heavy stuff (Holland).

[AndyT]

1st,,,, good post Col.

2nd,,,,, heard about your feeders Kev, can you send me a link or piccy or two please?? :D

3rd,,,,

Dont try to complicate your feeder fishing Col, keeping knots n stuff simple will lead to less aggrevation.

For natural water skimmer fishing, I still love to tie a simple patenoster type rig, tie a double over hand loop in the end of your line. Then around a foot or so back up the reel line, fold it into a loop which is around 6" long and tie it with a double over hand knot. At the bottom of this loop, I loop the line over a snap swivel to which I attach the feeder. The loop at the end of the line is what I attach the hooklength too.

For method feeder fishing, the Fox match flat beds are pretty good in the inline version, but for elasticated alot of the guys use the Kobra ones, I'm still working my wat through my Korum jobbies at the moment, but I do replace the laccy with hydro. Don't go down the route of huge coconuts when you start out, a medium size in any model should get enough feed down if you are chucking regular enough, and the also fly further.

As for lines, for short chucks I've been using some 3lb Ultima for the last few years (dont know what sort it is, soz) especially if the water is towing, for still days or when its hard, if braid is allowed, I use it, if it aint I use 8lb Diawa stuff as it doesnt stretch until it really gets pulled so therefore shows bites up really well.

I also use shock leaders with the braid or the 3lb Ultima, its a confidence thing.

Casting technique is essential to get big distances, use all of the handle and you need to ensure the rod is compressed big time at the point of launching your feeder forwards. Leave a couple of feet of line below the rod tip to help with leverage. The bottom hand should be pulled sharply into your little tum tum :rolleyes: at the same time you thrust your top hand forward. It does take a bit of practice and may take you a few sessions to gain confidence in what your rods are capable of! Start off with a 2oz bomb tied to the end of the line, you'll be amazed at the extra yardage once you start to use the rod.

Hope that helps abit petal

Andy (Le T) T

[Kevin Leach]

It depends on which model baitrunner you are using as to how much line is retrieved on each turn. The later models will retrieve 98cm of line per revolution of the handle. Where as the Ulltegra XSB will retrive a whopping 1.25m per revolution. With the bigger spools the line just flows off the reel and creates very little drag so you get greater distances. I have put a lot of time and effort into this as after i broke my back, it was the kind of fishing i found most comfortable. But you have to chuckle when the bloke on the next peg says well i cant understand that, i went 85 turns too but you had them first and you kept them there all day. The fact that the fish were out to start with and came in and found my groundbait first, liked it so why go any where else. Its like having an end peg on any draw. (unless the fish are closer in but i lay at trap for that so thats sorted too)

[Kevin Leach]

Andy T you are spot on with the distance between the feeder from the rod end on casting. Too many people have there feeder too close to the rod end to create enough power to launch a feeder a proper long way. Also it should be effortless, its no good thrashing the rod you are just waisting the energy. I was taught by my father who would put a bin lid down on the coal stacks. when i hit it he would move it and say try again. Ivan Marks at that time was my hero and i wanted to learn to be as good as him. I hope he is watching and has seen how much time i have devoted to this and is proud that i have put in as much time and effort as he did.

[Kevin Leach]

Also Colin dont be afraid of using the gear you use in Holland in this country. You will cringe if i tell you the tackle i use over here. They are using finer gear in Ireland (well until we turned up) When you get a fish on you want it out. The carp boys dont use fine scaled down rigs.

[Billy-No-Fish]

Andy, you don't set up the paternoster with a rotten hooklink of lesser strength line, just a loop, linked to a snap swivel? Never tried that. I assume it's the usual, making sure the hooklength is longer than the feeder link?

Kev it's the GTE 5000RB.

[AndyT]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :mad:

just typed what I thought was a decent reply to this, and spud fingered the key board and dint post it!!

:o:o

right then here goes again....

1. great post Colin
2. Heard about your feeders Kev, can you send me a link, or piccys so i can have a butchers please mate?

3. heres what I do/use,

Distance feeder work for breamy type lovelies 4lb Ultima summut or other, I got boxes of it a few years ago and just love the stuff. I do use a 10lb shock leader if I'm chucking weighty feeders though. As for how I attach the feeder....


Tie a loop in the end of the main line to attach your hooklength too.
12" back up your main line, fold it in half to make a loop about 6" long, then tie it off with a double over hand knot.
The end of this loop is then threaded over a snap swivel, onto which the feeder is clipped.
Job done, almost tangle proof and only takes a minute to do.

If braid is allowed I do use it, if not and I'm not chucking dead far I use 8lb Diawa stuff. I takes alot of force to make it stretch and therefore shows bites up like braid does. It can be a bugger if the lake is towing though.

As for methods, the Fox match flat bed jobbies for inline work are very good. You can put more lead on these to make them go silly distances as well! For laccied methods, alot swear by the cobra ones, but to be honest I am still working my way through the original Korum ones, but with the laccy replaced with hydro.
I only go upto the medium sized methods, I reckon I can get enough snap out with them without trying to hurl coconuts to the horizon. I just have to cast more frequently.... which IMO is a good thing.

Casting technique is the key to chucking a long way, if you dont cast properly, tackle makes sod all difference.


Leave at least 2ft of line hanging from the rod tip.
One hand at the top of the handle.
The other at the bottom.
Get the feeder to pull the rod tip down a fair bit.
When the feeder reaches its lowest point.
Snatch your bottom hand into your little tum tum...
Whilst pushing your top hand forward (toward the target)
This way, you start to compress the rod which then releases the power into forward momentum.

Practice this with a 2oz bomb, you'll be amazed at the extra distance you get!

right, I'm going to press "submit reply" before I forget.....

[Kevin Leach]

And to think we used to use 0.08 bottoms on worsborough and 24 hooks when they will have 0.16 line and 14s hooks.

[AndyT]

loosing the plot I think..... DOH


Dead right Kev re the daft hooks n hooklengths! The ammount of fish I have lost due to fishing stoooopid is unbelievable.

I hardly ever go below a 0.11 hook length now, and will still use a method in winter as well, 0.14 to a 18 B911... If they are there, it goes around, and I get them in the net! :D

[Kevin Leach]

Colin yes your baitrunner is one that has less turns per revolution than the xtea but never the less is still a good reel but to match the distance turn wise you will have to do a bigger number of turns, it is still capable of doing big chucks though.
I thought i could go a big chuck with my 13ft heavy speedmaster until i got hold of the 14FT heavy aerocast. During testing with Big Al , i had my previous set up and put it at the side of it. I was almost sick and instantly got him to ring up and order one even though where not available yet as they were in the prototype stage. This rod has to be seen to believe it, It is light and you would not believe is 14ft. With a 40gram feeder i threw off a full 125m of braid plus the shockleader. But why am i telling you this, i dont want anyone else to have one they are that good.

[Billy-No-Fish]

Because you have fallen under the 'Billy' spell.....

[Kevin Leach]

I am not posting all my clues up on here, Colin if you want to make a day sometime let me know i will show you how to get the best results from your feeder fishing. Pm me and i will arrange a session somewhere.

[Kevin Leach]

But dont be sickened when you see my feeder box. All my feeders go up in 1 gram increments to cope with the weather. Well you wouldnt go from 1 gram floats to 2 gram floats because the weather had changed would you.

[pellethead76]

hes after a place in the fisho final col hes heard u worked wonders for the others :D:D:D

[Billy-No-Fish]

I'll take you up on that when my diary allows Kev (busy for next 6 weeks at weekends). It will be nice for you to meet a true angling legend.....

[Blaggers]

Col, take him up on his offer mate, Kev, along with others like Mick Smith, Steve Whitfield, Dave Pearson and Bart have made their long distance Bream fishing a science, and they must rank among the best long-distance bream men in the country.

[Billy-No-Fish]

Blaggs, i will but i am booked up with social and fishing stuff. I hate being popular....

alright i've edited this, it's mostly social and Kev i will take you up on your kind offer. Many thanks.

[ScottT]

The later models will retrieve 98cm of line per revolution of the handle. Where as the Ulltegra XSB will retrive a whopping 1.25m per revolution.

Kev, we had a dicussion about that one night in the chatbox, it depends on how full your spool is.
Example:
If 1 turn of the reel handle sends the bailarm round 5 times.
5 times the circumference of an empty spool
5 times the circumference of a full spool.
The circumference of an empty spool could be 3inch, a full spool could be 5 inch, so one turn of the reel handle isnt going to give a set amount of retrieve.

[Kevin Leach]

Yes but with a large spooled reel, over a 100yards throw the difference is far less that a small spooled reel. I dont care how many turns i make on the reel as long as it is 20 yards past the people at the side of me. I only count to make sure i can get back to the same spot if i have a cock up, which we all do i dont care who you are, like the time i hit a seagull midflight whilst casting out.

[Kevin Leach]

Cheers Lee, i have put in a lot of time and effort with my long distance feeder fishing. Its hard to stay one step in front for long. As you said there are some really good long distance anglers that you have named there. i dont fear drawing at the side of any of them. We have all shared knowledge between each other and as you say have become feared by the anglers who draw near us. After winning the match on 3 of the 4 day festival at Ferry Meadows i must be doing something right and its not long before the other anglers start taking note of what you are doing different.

[rocketFeeder]

If you like your long range feedering get yourself up to Loch Ken or Killington :) Would be great to compare notes and see how the 'southeners' do it.

[Mickey Mouse]

Billy.

First you want to make me into a willy warmer, cause I’m nice warm and furry and now you want to be my friend because you’re after some help with your fishing. Well let me tell you something, my little dwarven friend – you can take a short walk and jump off a two ft wall.

No don’t do it, as I wouldn’t like you to hurt yourself my little friend because rumour has it that your angling is handicapped enough without you hurting yourself and since you were so kind to mention me in the same sentence as Frank, I will take your post as a great compliment.

In fact I’ll elevate you to friend of the mouse status as you have unwittingly paid me a great compliment and I feel extremely honored to be mentioned in the same sentence as Carpmagic when it comes to angling, despite my very limited and modest ability, (although for a mouse it must be said that I don’t do too badly).

No doubt you’ll be aware that all of my friends get a honoury place alongside me on my Disney wall of fame, so if Carpmagic agrees I can arrange for him to come over so we can do a shoot like I did with my good friends Arthur Jon, and Brave Mitten.

See:

It’s amazing what our makeup department can do and it would be fair to say we’ve taken years off both of them, with Brave looking at least 15 years younger and as stupid as ever, (he’ll say it’s the wig, but let’s be honest he is looking slightly monk like nowadays), and Arthur Jon looks very swarve and sophisticated, (it must be the facial hair).

Anyway lets get back to your question.

It’s best to use a feeder heavy enough to let you cast the distance without having to force the cast. The reason for this is that if you have to force the cast, i.e. using excessive pressure, it will affect your accuracy.

For bream fishing I use the lightest line you can get away with or alternatively I’ll use a shock leader, leaving at least 1.5 inch ends when you tie the knot, (use the water knot to join the lines), so that it goes through the rod rings without catching too much. Ideally with a shock leader you should have 2-3 turns on the reel when the feeder is hanging from the rod tip, in the casting position, (should be approx 3ft from rod tip to feeder, which will give you a good degree of accuracy and sufficient compression to cast a long way when the rod is loaded).

With carp it’s normally 6 or 8lb straight through. Line type doesn’t really matter as long as you have confidence in it and your set up. Although some anglers swear by braid I prefer mono as it sinks very quickly and on many venues braid isn’t allowed.

One of the biggest mistakes anglers make when trying to get distance is using a rod that is totally unsuitable for it. You need a compromise between power and sensitivity. At range you can forget your light tips as this is where 1.5-2 oz tips come into their own. Also when you cast don’t point your rod at the far bank when you follow through. You should be aiming high with the feeder and as such the rod tip should be pointing high following the same trajectory as the feeder.

There are some very good rods available now and the old Abu Suveran 12-14ft, (very reasonable on ebay), the 13ft carbonactive, (Nigel Harry swears by them), and the MAP 12-13ft Parabolix Power are all good long range rods with parabolic actions.

The reel type is often over looked so you want a reel with a decent spool size such as the Shimano 4000 size or above.

Feeders are governed by what you want to do with them and how much feed you want to put in. I’m a big fan of the Nisa and Kamasan range. I also like the Fox method feeders although I still have a place in my box for the old coil type method feeders, which for some reason aren’t fashionable any more but can still be very effective, especially if you want to put a lot of feed in.

When it comes to feeder size, once it starts to warm up I like to start big to get some feed down and then if you think you need to come down a size. Too many anglers forget a feeder is there to put bait in the peg and method apart, the purpose of ground bait is to carry loose feed. If I’m bream fishing I’ll always try to get as much squat and caster into an open ender as I can, especially in the early stages of a match. One way of looking at it is think how much loose feed you’d put in if you were float fishing and aim to put the same amount through the feeder.

As for bombs, try not to use a 200 pounder, not only will it make the lake deeper it will also pish off your fellow anglers. Just use one heavy enough to get where you’re casting comfortably. I know a lot of anglers like to fish a heavy lead on commercials and tighten up to it but there’s no need. Some may disagree but you’ll find that you don’t miss a lot of bites off carp on the lead and the heavier lead you use the more chance you have of the lead dislodging the hook as the fish shakes its head, (under the rod tip is a favorite).

Attachment is easy as most commercials insist on a running lead and 12 in hook length, on natural still waters and slow moving rivers a standard paternoster with 8 ins to the feeder and on rivers a running loop with a 2-3 in loop, (I always fish the bow if I can so 2-3 ins is perfect for drop backs).

[Billy-No-Fish]

Cheers Mickey, you know i was only joking a bout the willy warmer bit (finger gloves maybe)! One aspect of feeder fishing you don't see much of these days is the three loop method. I'd guess it's primarily for rivers. the idea being to avoid tangles?

I use braid on a large deep lake in Holland when fishing at about 50 yds. Coupled with the Shimano 4000 and the Carbonactive 12-6 feeder it's great fishing. Big slabs to about 7lb, although the average is about 5lb.

[Mickey Mouse]

Billy

The reason for the running loop is two fold.

One is that is you tie a series of two or three small loops on the hook length side of the feeder, it acts like a stiff link effectively keeping the hook length away from the feeder, thus avoiding tangles when casting.

The loop which the feeder runs on in effect is a semi-fixed bolt rig, which is why when you fish the method properly you often get a dink and a sharp drop back as the feeder is dislodged;)

[Billy-No-Fish]

Cheers Mickey, i don't believe half the stuff the others say about you, especially when Daffy said you fancy rats....

[Skip]

Micky mouse knows his stuff, I had 167lb of bream a few years back in a match on merchant taylors, and did not have a bite in the first hour, I put 5 pints of squatts through the feeder that day with hair rigged maggot, when your on a water where bream want natural baits, I honestly do not believe there is a better way to catch bream then hair rigging red maggot, pinkie or even squatts. :)

[Billy-No-Fish]

Skip, you are my hero!

[Skip]

Control yourself man:cool:

[wightangler]

skip- how do you hair rig maggots - i take it you don't mean one of those round metal maggot clips?

[Skip]

Superglue a small piece of silicon onto your line, and then tie a knotless knot, dip the thick end of your maggot into the glue (you don,t need loads) and then glue it to the silicon, you can catch a lot of fish on the same bait as well, For whatever reason, it does not work as well on skimmers under 12oz, but for big skimmers and bream, its the biz, you will get pull arounds, drop backs, but mostly tip shake. where the fish pick up the bait and shake thier heads. I found there was no need to do this for carp btw.

[Billy-No-Fish]

Skip, scuse me for being thick. This is like a hair rig set up but with silicon attached to the line coming from the hook? Is is close to the hook or an inch away or more?

[Skip]

Yes Colin, it is on a hair, just below the gap is about right:p

And if your allowed barbed hooks, you will not loose a fish, I used to use a Kamasan eyed maggot, that had a small barb. PS it takes about 10 seconds to glue the maggot.

[Billy-No-Fish]

Ta mate, very good of you. Totally different tangent. Would that work on a river for chub and barbel that are hook shy, using a maggot feeder and say a 12" hook length with 2,3,4 maggots? I'm thinking the maggots will be wriggling freely and waving about on the hair/silicon, and look more natural?

[ScottT]

This is going to end up in tears, with Billy having superglued dozens of maggots to himself :rolleyes:

[Billy-No-Fish]

****!!!





Probably very true.....

[Skip]

Don,t see why not Colin, give it a go mate, I would go with no more then three maggots for the chub, but you could put loads on for the barbel.

[Kevin Leach]

And whatever you do dont go for a pee, straight after using the superglue. I dont think they would believe you at the hospital how your hand managed to get glued to your privates.

[Billy-No-Fish]

Kev, i may look like a muppet.....

Cheers Skip for the sensible replies.

[Kevin Leach]

Your right Colin. Its a very good tip. I have been hair rigging dead maggots by threading them onto the hair. Using superglue sounds like a very good idea. You would be suprised who has had accidents with superglue, I rembember Alan Scotthorne sticking his hand to a plastic window whilst fixing some trim on.

[ScottT]

. I dont think they would believe you at the hospital how your hand managed to get glued to your privates.

Not to mention how several maggots appeared to be stuck to his privates as well. :eek:

[ScottT]

The other option is gluing them to a small cork ball then just threading it onto a hair, this will also pop them up a bit off the bottom.

[Chum Mixer]

why not use the new maggot rings that are designed for fishing hair-rigged maggot ?

the only comeback is they are more for bigger bunches of maggots say more than 4/6 but they do work. If superglue is still the problem use an eyed needle with some braid like Alex Bones did a feature on in one of the fishy mags, it will eventually get you to the same result without having super-knadds-glue(d) :rolleyes::p



although I do like the idea of BNF trying to explain to the nurse (its not what it seems HONEST I am a respectable man and NOT a perv) while his knadds are covered in maggots with his finger prints all over ha ha